914. - Tom Junod

Speaker A: All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it 3 times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? Speaker B: We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

Speaker A: All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. Bonjour, it's Chris Black, Jason Stewart. We are in Gay Paris. And it's feeling, I'm feeling a little crazy. I don't know about you, Jason, but we literally just got here and then sat in the lobby of the hotel for 2 hours or so because a hotel room has never been early in Paris in all of my years of coming here. As I said to you in the lobby, their response is always, not possible is their response if early check-in is available.

Speaker B: Not possible. It ended up working out. Yeah, I'm feeling a little psycho. Obviously just got off the plane from Cali, woke Woke up Wednesday, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, went for a hike, kind of pulled something in my leg kind of jogging down the hill too fast. So I have some travel pain. Speaker B: Not possible. It ended up working out. Yeah, I'm feeling a little psycho. Obviously just got off the plane from Cali, woke Woke up Wednesday, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, went for a hike, kind of pulled something in my leg kind of jogging down the hill too fast.

So I have some travel pain. Speaker A: Oh no. Oh no. Speaker B: I know. Speaker A: I didn't know about this. Speaker B: It's okay. I mean, it's not like, it's just like one of those things where you're walking around and you got a little, just a little bit of underlying soreness, but it's not gonna like— Speaker C: Yeah, of course. Speaker B: It's not gonna keep me off the runways of Paris. Speaker A: Okay, thank God. That's what I was worried about. That's what I was fucking worried about.

Speaker B: Yeah, thanks to our Loewe fama, familia for bringing us out. We got the little bag, we got the little flowers. Did you open up your little invite box that has a little item in there? Speaker A: No, I didn't actually. Speaker B: I think I have a lobster claw, an inflatable lobster claw pouchette. Speaker A: That actually— Speaker B: Does that sound right? Speaker A: That feels really good for you. Speaker B: I know, right? It does. Speaker A: As far as stuff that gets a part of your cross-section of interests, You know, pochette and crab, or excuse me, pochette and lobster are two things I think of when I think of you.

Speaker B: I haven't had enough time to really, you know, crack this claw open and see what it is. It looks to be inflatable and I'm like, oh damn, is this a leather flask? Couldn't be. Speaker A: Oh wow, that would come in really handy. That would come in really handy. Speaker B: So one way or another, I'm gonna inflate it with something. You know, get some green chartreuse in there. Speaker B: I haven't had enough time to really, you know, crack this claw open and see what it is. It looks to be inflatable and I'm like, oh damn, is this a leather flask?

Couldn't be. Speaker A: Oh wow, that would come in really handy. That would come in really handy. Speaker B: So one way or another, I'm gonna inflate it with something. You know, get some green chartreuse in there. Speaker A: Why are you making it sound like you're gonna piss in it? Why are you saying it like that? Speaker C: I'm not gonna piss in this thing at all. Speaker B: Oh, that's not where my mind was going, but it seems like that's where yours is going a little bit. Speaker A: That's where my twisted little head went, that's for sure.

Yeah, it's a beautiful day here in Paris. I'm gonna try to hopefully, I mean, we're going to dinner tonight at 9, so at least we'll get to experience that. I feel like the temperature is right, you know? There's no rain, which can be, but I've never, I told you, I've never stayed on this side of the river, so it feels like a whole different microclimate over here. Speaker B: Yeah, it's a little bit different over here on this side of the gray. The gray swamp. I really can't believe this is my first time in Paris.

Isn't that so fucking weird? Speaker A: I can't either. I mean, luckily you haven't had to interact with the people too much. That's the major problem. 'Cause it is beautiful. It is beautiful. It's quite beautiful. I had an— Speaker B: Until you gotta talk to someone. Speaker A: I mean, I almost had an altercation on the plane, but I, because sometimes when you take these flights that are quote unquote fashion flights, it's, there's people you know. So you kind of have to behave a little different. Speaker B: Mm-hmm. It's like the old trick when you're about to prank one of your bros you invite somebody that they have a crush on to be there whenever you pants them or whatever it is that you're going to do to them.

So then they have to, you know, control themselves in front of, you know, you don't want to scare the host, you don't want to scare your crush away. Speaker B: Mm-hmm. It's like the old trick when you're about to prank one of your bros you invite somebody that they have a crush on to be there whenever you pants them or whatever it is that you're going to do to them. So then they have to, you know, control themselves in front of, you know, you don't want to scare the host, you don't want to scare your crush away.

Speaker A: So you don't want to scare the perfect crime. Speaker B: So they— you would have normally flipped out, got a sky marshal sent over to your room. Speaker A: I wouldn't have flipped out. I've actually— I've actually— Speaker B: since you're sitting next to Pyre Moss. You had to keep it chill. Speaker A: I get it. Yeah, exactly. Speaker C: Shit, that's so good. I don't want to run into Pyre Moss in the bathroom, you know. Speaker A: Um, no, there's just, you know, in my experience of, of all my years of flying, and I'm sure you can attest this, I'm sure some of the listeners can as well, you know, when, when it comes to overhead bin space, it's sort of every man for himself within reason, you know what I mean?

Like, it's— I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do something crazy. Speaker B: Every them for themselves. You get in, you get out. Speaker A: I was, I was there, I was putting my bag up, and I put it over this guy's seat, and he like scoffed at me with a French accent. And I was like, oh, do you, do you need this? And he's basically like, yes, bitch. And so I take my bag out for him to put his fucking cheap jacket up there. Oh, because it was, because it was like directly over his seat, so he thought he took ownership.

Which I think if it was a bag situation, of course, but if I think both things could have fit, but he wanted to exercise his power over me. Speaker B: How cheap was this jacket? Speaker B: How cheap was this jacket? Speaker A: I mean, it would look— I didn't, I didn't see much. Speaker B: Definitely not a fine loewe garment is what you're saying. Speaker A: No, no, it just— I, I was just like, dude, your jacket. Also, on Air France, they, they give you a hanger for your jacket.

Like, you could have just— Speaker B: that's a nice touch. Speaker A: You could have just hung the jacket up, you know what I mean? It's not— it was a whole thing. But, but he, he knew I was— he knew that I wasn't feeling it, and then he tried to backpedal, and I was like, nah, bro, we're good. I found a place. I found a place for my stuff. Don't worry about me. I'm trying to settle in and watch this fucking Love Is Blind finale. So just get out of my hair, nerd.

Speaker B: How were you able to watch the Love Is Blind finale on the flight? Did you have it saved on your iPad? Speaker A: On my iPhone? Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: I don't use the— I haven't used the in-flight entertainment system in a very long time. If I'm going to watch anything, which is rare, I have it downloaded before I get on the plane. Speaker B: You watch that shit on your phone? Speaker A: Yeah, I don't care. It's not like it's fucking— it's not Steven Spielberg. I don't need to see Love Is Blind in 70mm.

Speaker B: I know, but you got to be there on the plane holding your phone the whole whole time like a goofy— no shit. Speaker A: I would say it's goofier to be an adult man with an iPad with a little stand. Speaker B: Mm, but you're hands-free. Speaker A: That's true. Speaker B: The trois fromages. Speaker A: Wait till I get— Speaker B: effortlessly. Speaker A: Wait till I finally get a PopSocket. It's over for you hoes when I get a PopSocket. Speaker B: Yeah, I was in, um, I was in the Air France lounge just kind of soaking it up.

They had some nice offerings up in there, but I was sitting next to these two women who are on the flight as well, actually, so I don't want to I'm not making fun of them, but it was just, they were, there were two women who were, you know, doing something right in the world. They're, they're sitting first class, you know, LAX to Paris for Fashion Week. And they were, they were going over the Hinge profile and how the numbers weren't numbering. Speaker A: Do you mean, hold on, do you mean they were going over one of their Hinge profiles or a fella?

Speaker B: One of their profile. One of them was married or in a relationship. The other one was single. You know, and she was— looked like a normal, well-to-do woman, had the fucking, uh, Veneta bag. Like, she wasn't no random fucking street urchin. And she's like, yeah, the Hinge is dry, I'm not getting any hits. And she was, you know, showing her Hinge profile to her friends, being like, what do you think, doc? What can we do to bring this thing back to life? And okay, and she's like, well, you know, I would maybe rotate this one with this one.

And she was like, yeah, I shot all new digitals this week and uploaded them. I included a photo of me holding a fish as like a little joke because like there's always guys holding fish on the thing. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's nice. Speaker B: And she does the whole spiel and she's like, I got no hits, got no bites at all. And I— it was hard to sit there quietly and not, you know, offer my mystery method assistance on how to like get my Steve Harvey on, how to date.

Yeah, I wanted to Steve Harvey these ladies, but I, I resisted. But I just felt, I just felt bad of like the only thing to do nowadays is just, well, I guess I'll, um, rotate the photos on my Hinge profile to see if one of these perverts, you know, sends me a 4 AM message and hope for the best, uh, you know, for finding my dream man. Speaker A: I don't— yeah, I mean, if you gotta engineer it. I mean, I guess it's like anything else. If you want to perform, you gotta, you know, analyze it.

Speaker B: I know, but it, it's just such a weird— it almost feels like, you know, boost this ad targeted marketing, you know, like, you know, well, you like, you have a marketing team and you're going out there and you're seeing what the conversion rate is, and, you know, there's no, there's no romance, there's no lust, there's no— Speaker A: about that, bro. Speaker B: There's no cum. Speaker A: I gotta get locked down now before I get to where the cum at. Speaker B: Yeah, I guess you're right. Speaker A: Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ. Speaker B: I didn't mean to— that was my sexy red impression. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: Where the hoochie daddies at? Where the cum at? Okay. Also speaking of cum, Equinox replaces the grown alchemist with Le Labo as its global amenities partner. Speaker A: Look, I'm proud of my Equinox family. Speaker B: Fellas, is it gay to have a global amenities partner? Speaker A: I'm proud of my Equinox family for making this change. I— we talked about this earlier. I think they should have gone back to Kiehl's. Kiehl's is like the diptyque, the standby, the tentpole, the OG.

I think Le Labo is fine. I said to you, I think Grown Alchemist unfortunately has the, the airport Delta stink on it from being the Delta partner. And I think you don't want to be reminded of that while you're getting ready to go make some trades at Goldman, you know, at 6 AM. I don't think it, I don't think it feels as good. Speaker B: The stink of a Delta partner. We've all been burned by that, haven't we? Speaker A: We've all been burned. Uh, all right, we have a guest.

Speaker B: I think it's a step in the right direction, but yeah, we have a guest today. Speaker A: Uh, Tom Janot is a, is a writer who has a new book out, a memoir. Speaker B: The stink of a Delta partner. We've all been burned by that, haven't we? Speaker A: We've all been burned. Uh, all right, we have a guest. Speaker B: I think it's a step in the right direction, but yeah, we have a guest today. Speaker A: Uh, Tom Janot is a, is a writer who has a new book out, a memoir.

Speaker B: One of the best titles of a memoir ever, and the artwork, it feels like a Smith song. In the Days of My Youth I Was Told What It Means to Be a Man: A Memoir. Speaker A: So good. Speaker B: Great title. Speaker A: But he's written several classic profiles for Esquire and GQ,, etc. He's also, he lives in Atlanta, which, you know, I'm gonna get into some traffic stuff with him. No, okay. Speaker B: ATL, ho. Speaker A: All right, let's get started. Let's get Tom on the line.

Speaker C: ATL, ATL, man. Speaker B: Okay, slow down, slow down. Speaker A: This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. Speaker B: A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast 3 times a week, and that's a sweet spot.

How many times do they do? Speaker A: 3 times a week. And I, I have a feeling, just based on the platform and these talking points, that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. Speaker B: The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Speaker A: Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast.

You can watch on YouTube. It's 3 times a week. And, and who couldn't use more news, you know, especially especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it, give it a listen, give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine, you know, drink more water. Speaker B: The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother.

Speaker A: Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch on YouTube. It's 3 times a week. And, and who couldn't use more news, you know, especially especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it, give it a listen, give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info.

This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine, you know, drink more water. Speaker B: He knows how to charge my copay. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker B: That's about it. Speaker A: As if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I don't get data, I don't get a game plan, I just get a pat on the ass, get out there and make it better. But Superpower is doing something different. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body.

Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin, mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Speaker C: Ooh. Speaker A: So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game. Let's go. Superpower is the more comprehensive and advanced system out there. Speaker B: Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with Superpower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership.

That is code HOWLONG. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about Superpower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and it'll just support us. Thanks. Speaker B: Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with Superpower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about Superpower.

Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and it'll just support us. Thanks. Speaker C: Here's my question. So my, I'm here in the house with my dog who's totally going to make an appearance here, and I want to know if that's okay with you, or do you want me to go out to my car? But I've done, I've, I've done many an interview in my car, man. Speaker A: No, no, it's fine. Speaker C: It's fine. Speaker A: As long as the dog's not too crazy.

Speaker C: He's not that crazy. Speaker B: When you, when you say, what do you mean by your dog is going to make an appearance on this podcast? It's audio only podcast. A little ominous of a warning. And I interested in hearing more. Speaker C: So he's a shelter dog that we've had a year. He's a pit bull. And sometimes, you know, he can just launch himself into just the most frenetic barking ever. And you always— you guys will know it's going to be a big one because he actually inhales beforehand.

You hear him go, you know, it's going to be a big one. And then he just— when you hear the inhale, you know it's going to be a big one. Okay, well, listen, we'll see how we do. Speaker A: We'll keep our ears peeled for the inhale. Speaker B: Just— yeah, I have the dog. Anti-dog technology turned on for the Zoom workplace meeting, so we should use AI technology to eliminate your dog's breathing. Speaker A: We'll keep our ears peeled for the inhale. Speaker B: Just— yeah, I have the dog.

Anti-dog technology turned on for the Zoom workplace meeting, so we should use AI technology to eliminate your dog's breathing. Speaker C: Okay, and here he is, and here he is. He's— he just— he just ate. I— we did a, uh, an incomplete play session, but he's— he's— Speaker A: incomplete places. All right, Tom, first of all, before we get started, your, your username here on Zoom is Perpetual Punctuation. Is that an LLC or is that a mantra? Speaker C: No, that is, uh— so I— every time I get like a piece of technology, I name it.

Like, I think that there was, uh, you know, I mean, I think I, you, I usually name it after parts of speech. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. So, so, you know, infinite— one was Infinite Elephant, and that's not a part of speech, but then there's like sort of like, you know, Perpetual Punctuation, semicolon infinity, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker B: She was so good in, um, in the new Leo movie, wasn't she? Speaker C: She was so good. She was so good. Speaker A: Okay, that's, that's a very interesting interesting naming convention that you've adopted.

Speaker B: Uh-huh. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: Real twisted mind we got here. Speaker B: So Tom, you're, is it safe to say you're a corked up man? Speaker C: I'm deeply corked up. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker C: Yeah. And, and, and this is just, this is, you know, everybody else just wants to talk about craft or whatever. You guys wanna talk about the quirks, which is good. Speaker A: We, I, I, I could care less about the craft, to be honest with you. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: If we, I don't even know what craft is.

Speaker C: I'm deeply corked up. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker C: Yeah. And, and, and this is just, this is, you know, everybody else just wants to talk about craft or whatever. You guys wanna talk about the quirks, which is good. Speaker A: We, I, I, I could care less about the craft, to be honest with you. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: If we, I don't even know what craft is. Speaker A: It's a, it's a Tom Colicchio restaurant. Otherwise, I don't know. Speaker C: Exactly. Exactly. Where, where are you guys right now?

Are you in Paris? Speaker A: We literally got to Paris this morning. Speaker C: Fantastic. Okay, so you know what my dog's name is? Speaker A: What is it? Speaker B: Toulouse? Speaker C: Jacques. Oh, wow. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker A: So you have a French bulldog. Speaker B: Un petit pit bull. Speaker C: I do. Look, because he's a pit bull who has ears like a French bulldog, hence Jacques. Speaker A: You're talking like a real dog guy. This ain't your first rodeo. Speaker C: Ain't my first rodeo. I'm a total dog guy.

Speaker A: How many dogs have you had? I don't want to bring up sore subject. Speaker C: No, no, it's not a sore subject. Uh, I've had, uh, my wife and I have had, uh, as adults, you know, as a married couple, we have had 6 dogs. Speaker A: Okay, these are all one at a time and they've, they've moved on to a better place? Speaker C: One of the— well, one at a time. We made the— yeah, they've all moved on to a better place. We, we made the mistake once of, of having 2 dogs and they were, they were— I don't know if you've ever heard of the breed Cane Corso.

Um, it's sort of a— it's like an Italian Mastiff, Corso Como, cross pit bull breed. And they're, and they're Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they're, you know, they can be rough. And everybody was like, oh, you know, you get two dogs, it's like half the work because they take care of each other. No, they fought each other. And so it was like, it was dog work squared until, of course, you know. Speaker B: And you get twice the shits to pick up. Speaker C: Twice the shits to pick up. Speaker B: Twice the kibble to buy.

The list goes on. Speaker C: But then the neutering happened so that That made it a little bit better. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker A: You feel like a guy. Speaker C: All right. Speaker A: How far do you take it? Are you making your dog's food on the range? No, no, no. Speaker C: All right. Speaker A: All right. You're fine. Speaker C: That's where I draw the line. I believe in kibble and cans. Speaker B: Kibble and cans. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: As a man's best friend. Yeah. You do have a lot of dog pics on the Instagram, Tom.

Speaker A: I do. Speaker B: Which is sweet. It's nice. Yeah. He's my guy. Could I have you rank all of your dogs that you've had over the years? Just, you know. Speaker C: Well, so Jacques is right here. You know, do you really want— Speaker B: that doesn't mean Jock's number one, though. Speaker C: I, I should, I should— well, Jock is, is, he's the cutest dog that we've had, but he's, he's also, he's also, you know, presents challenges. Um, our guy, uh, we had a dog named Dexter who was just kind of like the philosopher king of dogs, you know.

He was just, he was just a, he was just a cool dog. He was like like, you know, he's like the Morgan Freeman of dogs. Like, he plays— he plays God in the dog. Okay, so he was— he was really good. Speaker B: Wise beyond his years. Speaker C: But— but Jocks is just— it's wild. Like, you have to play with this guy. He's backing away from me now as we speak from this, and he's going to start to bark too. But no, no inhale. Um, there he goes. There he goes.

If he starts to bark, I will, you know, I will go out to the car. Jock, come here, buddy. Speaker B: Wise beyond his years. Speaker C: But— but Jocks is just— it's wild. Like, you have to play with this guy. He's backing away from me now as we speak from this, and he's going to start to bark too. But no, no inhale. Um, there he goes. There he goes. If he starts to bark, I will, you know, I will go out to the car. Jock, come here, buddy. Speaker B: Yeah, so far we don't hear anything, so it's all good.

Speaker C: Oh no, that's right, you have the AI. Speaker A: We have the— Speaker C: yeah, yeah. Speaker A: All right, so where— all right, so you live in Atlanta? Speaker C: I live in Marietta, Georgia. Speaker A: I say— Speaker C: I say Atlanta. Speaker A: I'm from— I'm from Atlanta. Well, Conyers specifically. My parents live— Speaker C: yeah, my parents live in Decatur. Speaker A: Uh, but Marietta has a lot of nice parks, right? Speaker C: Parts or parks? What did you say? Speaker A: No, that definitely has nice parts.

I know them. There was plenty of, uh, rich girls in our sights growing up, but I mean— I mean, the— the parks I feel like there's a lot of dog walking capabilities is what I'm trying to say where you live. Speaker C: I don't know. I've never done that. Speaker A: What do you mean you've never done that? Speaker C: Oh, because you've never used the park because your yard's so fucking big. Speaker A: Is that what you're trying to say? Speaker C: Our yard is so fucking big. Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: And it's got no grass. It's all trees and it opens onto a pond. Speaker A: How did you end up in a suburb of Atlanta, if you don't mind me asking? I assume it was for love. Speaker C: Yeah. But in this case, it was for love. It was for love of my brother. My brother Michael. So I was in Da— you know, when I got outta college, I was in Dallas, Texas. I was a handbag salesman. And then, um, I lost that job. Speaker A: What was your, what was your com— what was your commission looking like?

Neiman Marcus or somewhere else? Speaker A: What was your, what was your com— what was your commission looking like? Neiman Marcus or somewhere else? Speaker C: Uh, no, I had this huge territory. I had this, I, I was, the territory was the American Southwest and it was Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Arkansas. Speaker A: Oh, you, oh, you, I see wholesale. Speaker C: I was traveling wholesale. Okay. Yeah. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker C: I wasn't, I wasn't like the guy in the store. You know, but yeah, I was, I was a, I was a, a rep.

And, and so I did that and it was, it was a disaster on like a couple of different levels. And then I lost that job and my brother who was a handbag salesman in Atlanta said, come on and live with me. So I did that for a while and that's what got me here. And I've been here for a long, long time. Speaker B: So bag selling runs in the family is what it sounds like. Speaker C: Handbags definitely. And salesmanship. Speaker A: What is the, what kind of handbags are we talking about here?

If you don't mind me prying. Speaker C: So ladies' handbags, number one. I didn't sell man bags, I sold handbags. So, um, uh, there were— it was my line was called, uh, Felipe. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker C: And, uh, it was, it, it, for a little time it was like a thing. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker C: But it was a very, very short time. Speaker A: What was the price point on the bags? Speaker C: I would say that they wholesaled in the '20s and sold at the time in the '50s or '60s.

Speaker B: Okay. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker B: Adjust for inflation. Not bad. So, you know, I'll check eBay for a nice Filipe, a nice, gently worn Filipe. Speaker C: Gently worn Filipe. I bought a bag on eBay last year just to sort of remind me where I come from. Sure. You need to— Speaker B: Okay. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker B: Adjust for inflation. Not bad. So, you know, I'll check eBay for a nice Filipe, a nice, gently worn Filipe. Speaker C: Gently worn Filipe. I bought a bag on eBay last year just to sort of remind me where I come from.

Sure. You need to— Speaker B: I've got it after all these years. Speaker A: Humble yourself with an eBay bag purchase. Speaker C: No, no shit. Totally. Speaker A: That's a good way. I feel like that's a pretty fun job for a young man, I have to say. Speaker C: Oh, maybe. It was, you know, it was a crazy job. My boss was such a prick that, I mean, I wrote 2 pages of physical description of him for the book that my editor cut out and saying, "This is no place for revenge and settling scores."

So that was, there was like a long physical description of this guy. It was like Dickensian, you know? Speaker A: Okay, I actually disagree. I think a memoir is the perfect place for that. Um, maybe that's why I'm not your editor, but I, I guess he had, he had to cut something, so he cut that. Speaker B: Sure. Speaker A: Was this, was this gentleman fun to describe negatively? You know what I mean? Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. So, so he had his shoe size, his shoe size was 12 AAA.

Meaning, meaning that he essentially walked around on, on pencils. Speaker B: All right, so, okay, so, so that's— so there, it's an ultra narrow, which was the weirdest ultra narrow. Speaker B: All right, so, okay, so, so that's— so there, it's an ultra narrow, which was the weirdest ultra narrow. Speaker C: You've never seen narrower feet than this guy. And he was, and he was a fat dude with this, with this huge belly and these, and he walked around on skates. It was crazy. And of course, and so I was in Dallas, and when he visited, he came in his special extra narrow cowboy boots.

And, you know, I, I, I dream of that. Speaker A: Extra narrow cowboy. I've, yeah, I've only heard of extra wide. Yeah, I've never even thought about extra narrow. Exactly. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: So it's long but it's not girthy is what you're saying. Speaker C: Yeah. And he, he took, and he took perverse pride in his narrow feet. But anyway, you're, you're getting to me. Speaker A: Oh, he broke— he— okay, I see. He was like, he was like, I'm not gonna hide this, I'm out and proud. Speaker C: Right, exactly, exactly.

Speaker B: I work hard for these dainty feet. Speaker C: Yeah, I can respect that. Speaker B: Okay, well, did, did you pick up some good life lessons and tactics and manipulation interview skills in the, uh, in the commission sales world? Speaker C: There was a, you know, I think, I think, and I, so I think that, you know, a lot of, a lot of, you know, people go to J-school. I definitely went to handbag school. Yeah. You know, so then there's, then there's, you know, that really, there really is something to walking up to a store, pushing a sample case, knocking on the door and say, "Here I am."

I mean, that was— I mean, what better prep for being a journalist than that? Speaker A: No, I agree. I say all the time that that kind of job is real training for life, no matter what you're going to do. Speaker A: No, I agree. I say all the time that that kind of job is real training for life, no matter what you're going to do. Speaker C: It's totally training for life. And now, you know, so I've written, you know, a book. And the whole thing about writing a book that people don't tell you is that, you know, you write it in solitude and then you got to, like, go out and just, like, sell the shit out of it.

So, like, I wrote a book to sort of get away from being a handbag salesman. And now I'm a handbag salesman again, except that I have books. Speaker B: Can I interest you in a memoir, size 12? Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. Speaker B: No, I mean, I think, I feel like that type of thing where you're knocking on doors of boutiques and trying to get them to buy bags wholesale, you know, your calluses of being told no must be very strong. And it's an amazing skill and life lesson to learn, especially early.

Speaker C: It's a great life lesson to learn. I mean, I remember being like going, it was like the end of the day. I was driving through some small town in Texas and I stopped at, you know, at a boutique. I stopped at like a dress store and, you know, they had no idea I was coming. I had no idea I was stopping there. Walked in, you know, and the two women, the thing were just like watching TV in the back and they didn't buy any me buy any bags, but they felt so sorry for me.

I just like sat there watching TV with them at 5 o'clock in the afternoon in a dress store in like Nacogdoches, Texas or something. Speaker A: That is crazy. Yeah, that's a slice of life, as they say. Speaker C: Yeah, it is a little bit. It is. Speaker A: That is crazy. Yeah, that's a slice of life, as they say. Speaker C: Yeah, it is a little bit. It is. Speaker B: It kind of feels like Marty Supreme a little bit, just saying. Speaker C: It does. Do you want to hear like a great handbag story that I couldn't get in the book?

That also— I mean, it's— Speaker B: we're balls deep in Fashion Week, Tom. Let's go. Okay, no better time than now. Speaker C: So So the salesman, my boss was just, he was a ruthless guy, the guy with the narrow feet. But he was like, he made a shit ton of money as a salesman. And one time this young woman with a store in College Station, Texas came to my showroom in the Apparel Mart and this guy Bert just like upsold her. All day long. Oh, you know, he like pushed me away.

Hey, kid, get out of here because I got something to do. Speaker A: Watch Burt cook. Speaker C: Took her, took her out to dinner, the whole thing. And like a couple, like, like 2 months later, I'm about to go down to Houston. I'm passing through College Station. It's Tommy, you're gonna go see Sheila's Shoes, you gotta pay her a visit. So I said, yeah, sure, I'll pay her a visit. And so I walk in there, It's a small store in College Station, Texas, and all it's full of is Felipe handbags.

I mean, it was— they were, they were everywhere. They were on, like, top of, of the counters. They were hanging from the walls. And I asked for the— for Sheila, the woman. And the people just— and they said, where are you from? And I said, Felipe. And they just— they, like, looked at me, and they looked at each other, and they went into the back, and they They took out this woman, a very young woman who had like aged over the time since I'd seen her last. And I said, oh, hi, Sheila, how's it going?

And she like grabbed me and said, you've got to help me. They're everywhere. And I was like, well, you know, you do have a lot of bags. And she goes, they keep on coming. I haven't even opened all the boxes yet. She was like, you have to help me. You have to give me some, you know, you have to give me some money. I have to return them. I have to, I have to. I'm gonna go out And then I said, well, you know, let me check in. And so I went out front and, you know, back then there was no cell phones.

There was just right in the front, there was a payphone. So I called Bert. I'm looking in at this, you know, this woman who's, you know, near tears inside on the other side of the glass. And I call him up and I was like, hey Bert, you know, this is the situation. She says she needs help. And he goes, uh, Tommy, uh, where are you? Like, I'm outside. He goes, how close is your car? I said, it's right in front of— he goes, all right, here's what you do. You get in it and you drive away.

I was like, well, she's like crying inside. He goes, listen to me, you get in it and you drive away. And that's what I— Speaker A: that's what I have to side with Burt. I have to side with Burt on this. Speaker C: That's what I did. I got in and I drove away. Speaker A: I would want to have sympathy, but you knew what game you were getting into. Speaker C: Yeah. You know, so that's my, that's, that's my like, you know, handbag day story. Speaker A: That's a, yeah, that's a great job, man.

That's a, that's, I would say better than writing, honestly. At least there's, there's, I feel like, I feel like there's, yeah. Speaker C: But I was also a fanatic writer. I have, I have all these Felipe business cards that are filled with like microscopic print of like moments when I would, you know, the sun would be setting and I would stop to describe it in on these. Like, I mean, you can't— the print is so small on these business cards, you can't even read it. Speaker B: You've got entire chapters written on the back of a Felipe business card, legible to even you.

Speaker C: Yes, illegible to even me. Speaker A: Well, I mean, you know, we talk a lot about magazines here on the podcast. That's a, that's a, you know, and also in our lives. And, and I think the world is now debating, you know, the end, as they always do. But I feel like you did— anytime we get someone on How Long Gone, they experience the heyday of the— yeah, yeah, sort of, you know, you know, 10,000-word, take as long as you need, uh, type, type time period. How, how luxurious was it, or did it not feel like that at the time?

Speaker C: I mean, it didn't— I mean, you didn't know it was gonna end. Speaker A: Sure. Speaker C: So, you know, so it wasn't— it didn't feel like, oh, I have this, I have this fleeting luxury here. It felt like it was gonna, you know, last forever. Speaker B: And magazines, baby, top of the world. Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. I mean, so when you like— so Art, you know, I worked for GQ from '93 to '97. And, you know, you go back into the— you know, the editor-in-chief was this guy, Art Cooper.

And you went into his back office at 5 o'clock, you know, he would start drinking. And if you were, you know, on the in with Art, you would start drinking too. He would like invite you back. And you felt like, you know, it felt like he was King Arthur and you were Sir Lancelot and you were the knight that went out there to, you know, come back back with these crazy stories. And I mean, the luxury, of course, was not just the length or the time or the resources. The luxury was like, you could take crazy, crazy chances.

And God, you know, God knows I took enough of them. But I would, you know, I was, you know, you were able to write what you wanted to write. You got paid incredibly well. But, you know, I— so, but I gotta say that, you know, that kind of, you know, that hasn't like totally ended for me because after I left Esquire, I went to ESPN where I still am able to write at length and write about sort of odd subjects. I mean, I grew, I was able to write in 2022.

I spent a year with another reporter. There he goes. Did you hear the inhale? Speaker C: I mean, it didn't— I mean, you didn't know it was gonna end. Speaker A: Sure. Speaker C: So, you know, so it wasn't— it didn't feel like, oh, I have this, I have this fleeting luxury here. It felt like it was gonna, you know, last forever. Speaker B: And magazines, baby, top of the world. Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. I mean, so when you like— so Art, you know, I worked for GQ from '93 to '97.

And, you know, you go back into the— you know, the editor-in-chief was this guy, Art Cooper. And you went into his back office at 5 o'clock, you know, he would start drinking. And if you were, you know, on the in with Art, you would start drinking too. He would like invite you back. And you felt like, you know, it felt like he was King Arthur and you were Sir Lancelot and you were the knight that went out there to, you know, come back back with these crazy stories. And I mean, the luxury, of course, was not just the length or the time or the resources.

The luxury was like, you could take crazy, crazy chances. And God, you know, God knows I took enough of them. But I would, you know, I was, you know, you were able to write what you wanted to write. You got paid incredibly well. But, you know, I— so, but I gotta say that, you know, that kind of, you know, that hasn't like totally ended for me because after I left Esquire, I went to ESPN where I still am able to write at length and write about sort of odd subjects. I mean, I grew, I was able to write in 2022.

I spent a year with another reporter. There he goes. Did you hear the inhale? Speaker B: No. Speaker C: On that bark? No. Can you not hear him barking? No, no, no. Speaker B: Are you noticing? Speaker C: That's unbelievable. I want that. Speaker B: Zoom has very good noise-canceling technology, believe it or not. Speaker C: I want that. You got to get that. I'll just go through life with that. Speaker A: Zoom headphones. Zoom headphones. Speaker B: I can add in some barking in post if you'd like. Speaker C: No, I totally don't want you to have the barking in post.

Just to prove that that can happen. But anyway, so when I was In 2022, you know, I wrote a 32,000-word story for ESPN about a Penn State player from my hometown who was like a horrific serial rapist. Wow. That was protected by, that was protected by, you know, Joe Paterno. So, I mean, I'm able to do stuff But, but yeah, no one, no one saw, no one saw the end coming. And, you know, and we were also dumb in the, in the beginning that when people, uh, you know, when the internet was sort of came into being in the early 2000s, late '90s, it was like, oh, this is great.

Everybody's going to be able to see our stuff now. Speaker A: Yeah, sure. You didn't realize. I mean, I think I think that just, just you talking about that, that story, I feel like sports is, is for whatever reason, one of the last places where that can happen. Speaker A: Yeah, sure. You didn't realize. I mean, I think I think that just, just you talking about that, that story, I feel like sports is, is for whatever reason, one of the last places where that can happen. Speaker C: Yeah, I agree.

Speaker A: I feel like that. I feel like sports fans are the most dedicated and we talk about this a lot. Like my friend Ryan does that. It's a series called Untold on Netflix. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: They have that Lamar Odom documentary coming out. Right. And I, I was talking to him about it, how I don't care about sports at all, but I will watch all of that and I will read a 32,000 word story about it. It without ever having to care about the team or the score or the stats.

That, I think that's a strange story. Speaker C: Was widely read. It's crazy. I mean, it was really widely read and it seems niche in some ways. Speaker A: It does seem niche maybe on the, on the surface. Speaker C: It turned out, you know, it turned out not to be the, the thing that's interesting though is like, so that was 2022. Would that still be super widely read in 2026? Because, you know, a lot of stuff has changed even since 2022. Things are going really fast. Speaker A: If you read the— if you read the really bad parts on TikTok, maybe.

I don't know. I don't know if people are going to ESPN. No, no, I know what you're saying. I mean, I think that like that— I think sports just contains so many layers. But you're right, I wonder if it's even— even only a few years removed, if that would still capture the same amount of eyeballs, right? It took a year almost. Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we did— we— it was— it was me and Paula Levine, who's just a, you know, an ace, you know, investigative reporter. And yeah, and we had to, we had to break through a lot of walls to get to it.

You know, we had, you know, miraculous finding of documents. The documents had all been destroyed and how we found them was just the craziest thing. I went to talk to, there was a judge who was a prosecutor who prosecuted this guy Todd Hodney when he finally killed somebody. And he became a judge. And but he thought that Rodney was so dangerous that he kept the files on his own in his office in case— Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we did— we— it was— it was me and Paula Levine, who's just a, you know, an ace, you know, investigative reporter.

And yeah, and we had to, we had to break through a lot of walls to get to it. You know, we had, you know, miraculous finding of documents. The documents had all been destroyed and how we found them was just the craziest thing. I went to talk to, there was a judge who was a prosecutor who prosecuted this guy Todd Hodney when he finally killed somebody. And he became a judge. And but he thought that Rodney was so dangerous that he kept the files on his own in his office in case— Speaker A: oh shit, like, I know that something bad's gonna happen, so I need to have these.

Speaker C: Something— it like— yes, exactly. Like, so if this guy is ever close to getting out of jail, I'm gonna, you know, show these files to people. And he showed them to me. Damn. And it was an amazing experience. It was a total miracle, you know? Speaker B: The smoking gun. Speaker C: Smoking gun, right. Speaker B: Okay, so you're a real gumshoe is what I'm gathering here. Speaker C: I can do that, you know? It's the— Speaker A: Look, it's not my favorite thing, but I can do it if I need to.

Speaker C: I can do it. And the handbag thing definitely offered me some strength. Speaker B: Kudos to your journalistic integrity as well and doing all that work. Do you think we're entering a post-integrity era? World, in, in the world of journalism, or just, you know, well, essay writing or opinion writing? Speaker C: I can do it. And the handbag thing definitely offered me some strength. Speaker B: Kudos to your journalistic integrity as well and doing all that work. Do you think we're entering a post-integrity era? World, in, in the world of journalism, or just, you know, well, essay writing or opinion writing?

Speaker C: I mean, I, I think that, I, I think that, you know, journalism is, is trying to hang in there with just the sheer amount of lying that goes on in the public sphere. I mean, it's difficult. It's, has there ever been a better time to be a liar? Speaker A: This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at Better Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone.

Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own, but the truth is no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you you can really make all the difference. Speaker B: I agree, Chris. And sometimes, you know, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them, because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself.

And that's the most— that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp, choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it and, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, damn, I really am him. You don't have to be on this journey alone.

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US only. Speaker A: Exclusions apply. See com/pricematch for details. Speaker B: Chris and I say it all the time where like, as dumb as it is, you know, let's say you get your, you know, your wife sees your phone and you've been texting all these girls and cheating on her the whole time. And you could just say, oh, that's just AI. Somebody made that on Photoshop or whatever. And like, it kind of works nowadays. You know, it's like, it's like plausible enough to keep a liar going a long way. Speaker C: Yeah, because if you swim in a sea of lies, is— Speaker A: are they lies?

Speaker C: You know, it's— it's— if that's— if that's the medium that you exist in, and I don't mean medium as in like in terms of like television, I mean medium in terms of air. Speaker B: No, and, and if the lie is true and nobody seems to give a shit either way, then that also makes it, you know, just like, is it real? Is it fake? I don't— it doesn't matter. The answer doesn't really matter anymore because we'll all forget about it. Speaker B: No, and, and if the lie is true and nobody seems to give a shit either way, then that also makes it, you know, just like, is it real?

Is it fake? I don't— it doesn't matter. The answer doesn't really matter anymore because we'll all forget about it. Speaker A: That's what I was— yeah, yeah, that's— Speaker C: I can't wait for the Liar Liar remake as an inspirational film. Speaker B: Jim Carrey's Liar Liar. Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, Jim Carrey's Liar Liar. Speaker A: You know, Jim's got other problems to worry about right now, like his face, but you know, he's— he'll get to it eventually. No, I mean, I think we are in a post-truth society for sure, but I, I think that, like, do you really think that, like, a majority of people have a hard time time deciphering real from fake on the internet?

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I do, I do. Speaker A: But do you think it's— I guess it— what, what groups of people do you think that particularly affects, or do you think it affects all of us? Speaker C: Well, I think that, I think that everybody likes to look at the other guy as the guy who is credulous. Speaker A: True. Speaker C: You know, hold on one second, I'm getting my— getting Big Jock up on the couch here. Here he is. That'll slow down the barking. But anyway, yeah, I think everybody looks at the other guy that's credulous until you look at your own tailored, fine-tuned sites.

And listen, I get a lot of liberal, I'm on Bulwark and all the rest of that kind of stuff. And I don't know how much of it is true. I mean, a lot of, I've been hearing on those sights for like 8 years that, you know, we're gonna get him now. Trump is raised in our sights, you know. And the guy is, you know, he's, he's Roadrunner. He just sneaks out of it. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Um, I, I feel, I feel, I feel, uh, manipulated all the time.

I like to think that I'm not susceptible, credulous, that I'm, that I'm a— yes, susceptible, that I'm a, that I'm a very, very discriminating news consumer, but I have really no idea if that's true. Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I, I, there's— I know what you mean. I, I think there's— there, you're right, it's easy to assume that you, you got it and others don't. Speaker B: Yeah, it's a, it's a thing that I— you're, you're a little bit older than us, so you might have some, some more insights, but it's a thing that I worry about when everyone's, you know, talks about like, um, you know, my grandpa got scammed out of his retirement, or, you know, you know, home equity loan and fucked it all up, just believing that a photoshopped image of Fox News is real when it's not, or AI footage of bombs being deployed in Kuwait or whatever.

Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: And I feel like I have a good sense of knowing if something is real or not, and I have a keen eye, but I know that at some point in my life I will become too old and the technology will sort of wash over me and I will not be able to discern it anymore. And that's a scary thing. Speaker C: It's definitely a scary thing. Speaker B: To somebody who's grown up on the internet their entire life and, you know, has sort of mastered it in some ways.

Speaker C: So I know, I know two people that have gotten, you know, successfully defrauded over the last year. Yeah, yeah. One's— one was old. Yeah. And, and, and one was young. Speaker B: Smart people. Speaker C: Smart people. And the thing that— Speaker B: smart people. Speaker C: Yeah. And the thing that's— the thing that's, you know, weird about now is like with all the scams and the fraudsters out there it's not neutral. I mean, they're coming at you. It's not like you just have to sort of like fall into it.

I mean, they are actively trying to defraud you. I mean, there's nothing more terrifying than looking at your junk mail. I mean, it's like, holy shit. Hi, Tom. We've been watching you and we have pictures of you. It's the weirdest thing. Of course, I know it's not true. Speaker B: smart people. Speaker C: Yeah. And the thing that's— the thing that's, you know, weird about now is like with all the scams and the fraudsters out there it's not neutral. I mean, they're coming at you. It's not like you just have to sort of like fall into it.

I mean, they are actively trying to defraud you. I mean, there's nothing more terrifying than looking at your junk mail. I mean, it's like, holy shit. Hi, Tom. We've been watching you and we have pictures of you. It's the weirdest thing. Of course, I know it's not true. Speaker B: But at the same time it's just like, I didn't even go to the island. Speaker C: Exactly, exactly, exactly. I swear to God. Speaker B: Yeah, it was just a layover. Speaker A: You're right, I could see how at a certain point you start to be like, wait a second, was I— wait, was I there?

Speaker C: Right, hold on. Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think that we all will fall victim to it eventually as the technology gets— but I do think there's going to be, at least maybe in some forms of media, swing back to the, to the analog dog, you know, for, for lack of a better term. I think that like, yeah, I like my vinyl, you know. I, I'm sure you do. Yeah, but I mean, listen to Steely Dan on vinyl and Marietta is, is a, you know, that's a, that's a small step for mankind.

Speaker C: I'm gonna do that right after we get off. Speaker B: There we go. Speaker A: I just, I just mean, I think that like the, the way that those kind of things get fetishized, even the way like magazines are to some extent by young people, whether it's, you know, tapes or vinyl or whatever, I think the next thing is literally going to be like going outside. Speaker C: I'm gonna do that right after we get off. Speaker B: There we go. Speaker A: I just, I just mean, I think that like the, the way that those kind of things get fetishized, even the way like magazines are to some extent by young people, whether it's, you know, tapes or vinyl or whatever, I think the next thing is literally going to be like going outside.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker A: Like not just not being, like not being on your phone is the real luxury. Right. Speaker C: Right. Speaker A: You know, versus, versus these more specific things you're actually buying. Speaker C: It's like opting out is the luxury, but as opposed to like buying it, opt, opting out from AI is going to be the luxury item in 10 years. Speaker A: I, I mean, we, we talked about this a little bit, but I think that like, it's also going to, do you think it, it is possible it can make blue collar jobs much more desirable?

Speaker C: Yes. All of it. All, everything that, everything that you're thinking about about that. I think it's true. Speaker A: That I'm interested in. Speaker C: And I don't even know what you're thinking about it, but I think it's true. Speaker A: Yeah, I just mean like the idea that like a plumber is the job that people want now because they make money and it's secure versus like a crypto trader with a penthouse in Miami because that's all, you know, that could all crumble at any minute. Speaker C: So car mechanics have always had you at their mercy.

Now there's going to be like car mechanics in like every field just like waiting to like, oh, I know how to fix this. Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. Car mechanics actually one of the best. That's the best example of that. I can't think of another one that's that long understanding, right? And cars are just computers now. Speaker C: Exactly. And, and, and wait, you know, wait till cars, wait till cars, um, you know, are completely, are completely AI and, and people no longer know how to drive. Speaker C: Exactly. And, and, and wait, you know, wait till cars, wait till cars, um, you know, are completely, are completely AI and, and people no longer know how to drive.

Speaker B: That's when those reporters' cars just randomly hit a tree sometimes. Speaker C: You know what I mean? Speaker B: You start digging too deep, brother. Speaker C: So one of the weirdest things about being in Atlanta now and go and going downtown, I was, I was down around yesterday, like around like 10th Street, you know, somewhere around the Midtown area. Midtown area. And the, you know, the, the WayPro cars are there. And I was like, one time I was like crossing the street and I was in the car that was coming up to the stop, stop sign was a WayPro car.

I was like, please don't kill me. Speaker A: The way the Waymo, the Waymo will— Waymo, the Waymo will become like in LA, it's, it's so common practice that you sort of just, it doesn't, you don't notice it more. And I think Atlanta will be the same because in LA, Jason, aren't they going on the highway now? I heard. Speaker B: Yeah, they're starting to go on the freeway now in LA. I'm sort of of two minds. I'm with you. When it first started appearing, it was like a novelty. And then you also didn't— I didn't trust it or believe it or anything like that.

And nowadays I feel a little safer around the Waymo than the average driver, you know, with one phone, you know, hand on the phone, hand on the wheel, sort of driving, sort of not. Speaker C: Sure, sure. Speaker B: You know, but I mean, it's all bad and it's all weird. But here's my question. Speaker C: Have you Have you guys, have you guys taken a Waymo? Speaker B: I have not. No. Speaker A: Yeah, I have a few. I mean, in LA, definitely in San Francisco, it's even more prevalent, obviously.

Speaker C: Sure, sure. Speaker B: You know, but I mean, it's all bad and it's all weird. But here's my question. Speaker C: Have you Have you guys, have you guys taken a Waymo? Speaker B: I have not. No. Speaker A: Yeah, I have a few. I mean, in LA, definitely in San Francisco, it's even more prevalent, obviously. Speaker B: So a couple times there, the main argument that people have for why they're taking it, it seems to be so they don't have to have a conversation or smell another human being or breathe the same air as them.

Speaker C: But the thing is, like, I love the conversation. Speaker B: Me too. Speaker A: Sorry, guys. Speaker C: I am the Uber guy talker. That's what I do. Speaker A: You and Jason are both my fucking nightmare. Speaker C: Every time I get into the backseat, I mean, and sometimes I have like great conversations. Speaker B: Sometimes you strike gold. Speaker A: I think that's real. I honestly, the smell is more my issue. The Waymo smells extremely new car. Speaker C: Have you talked to anybody about that? Speaker A: I talk about it 3 times a week on this show for free.

com is the website. Sight. Um, no, but I, I, I understand both sides of it. I don't— I almost— I think you take it as a novelty and then you realize how easy it is and you're kind of like, this is funny. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: But I do think overall, as a, as a sort of impending doom, uh, signaler, it is, it is scary in that sense. Speaker C: Yeah. I just don't understand the advantage of it. I don't understand the advantage of sitting in the backseat of a car with like nobody in the seat.

It's just, it's just too weird for for me. Speaker B: And also, whenever I take an Uber, it's a fucking Escalade, bro. I don't want to get in some little Hyundai white Jaguar with your initials on the top. Speaker B: And also, whenever I take an Uber, it's a fucking Escalade, bro. I don't want to get in some little Hyundai white Jaguar with your initials on the top. Speaker C: That's just— Speaker B: I like that. Speaker C: In the little— that's fun. Speaker A: It's personalized. Speaker C: It's so pitiful.

It's so sad. Speaker A: You guys, Jason's talking a lot. Speaker B: Look, yeah, Chris, you are pitiful. Speaker A: The problem with Uber that we've said a million times is you have to pay for the fucking Escalade for it not to smell bad, and that's the problem. And a Waymo, you can— in a Waymo, you get the— it's the same price across the board and it smells like a new car. Speaker C: No one lives there. So we're back to the smell. I was trying to give you an out.

Speaker A: No, the smell. No, no, the smell is my issue. The smell is my number one issue, I would say. Speaker C: That is clear. Speaker A: In many ways. How often— all right, so how often are you making the trek down 85 from Marietta to Atlanta proper? Where are you guys going to eat? Speaker C: I went to— yesterday I went to Xi'an Famous Foods. Speaker A: Oh, yes, of course. Speaker C: Yeah, the place on 10th. Speaker B: It's killer. Speaker A: Okay, so you, so you're going, you're going to the city what, once a week?

Speaker C: No, I went to the city yesterday. I had to do, I had to do an interview for the book and so I was right around the block from Jian. So that's where I went. Speaker A: And what's up? You, and you worked at Atlanta Magazine too, right? Speaker C: Yeah. A long time ago. Yeah. Speaker A: That's a crazy one. Is it, does this still exist? Yeah, it does. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: How do you think it's doing? Speaker C: I don't know. They, they did a, they did a story about me that's, and I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know.

Speaker A: You're like, I'm, I'm withholding judgment until this story comes out. Speaker B: Exactly right. Speaker A: I'll let you know how they're doing financially. If my story is good, I'll be able to— Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: How do you think it's doing? Speaker C: I don't know. They, they did a, they did a story about me that's, and I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know. Speaker A: You're like, I'm, I'm withholding judgment until this story comes out. Speaker B: Exactly right. Speaker A: I'll let you know how they're doing financially.

If my story is good, I'll be able to— Speaker B: I'll be able to— Speaker C: Okay, so the weird thing about Atlanta Magazine, which— and I think it sort of bespeaks the problem of magazines in general— it's no longer on the rack on the checkout aisle of Publix. Speaker A: Yeah, you got to go to com. Speaker C: That's a problem that it's no longer there because it's been there for as long as I've been in Atlanta. And now it's like those special issues of National Geographic. Speaker B: They only have fake magazines at Publix now.

Speaker A: Taylor Swift magazine. Speaker C: Yes, the Taylor Swift one. Or, you know, sort of yet another take on Jesus. Speaker A: Yet another take on Jesus might be specifically Publix in the South. But you're right. Speaker C: It's a— that's a pretty good— it's a pretty good podcast name, guys. I just gave that to you. Speaker B: Yeah, the March issue of Pro-Life Monthly is a great one. You got to pick it up. Speaker A: Get that at any local Publix if you're doing your shopping. Speaker B: You might be able to get a Garden and Gun down there still, though.

Speaker A: You can get a Garden and Gun. Speaker C: You can definitely get Garden and Gun, but it's not on the checkout rack. Speaker A: You're saying you have to subscribe, basically. There's nowhere to like— Speaker C: You have to subscribe or go to the magazine section of the Publix rather than it being right there next to the candies. Speaker B: You might be able to get a Garden and Gun down there still, though. Speaker A: You can get a Garden and Gun. Speaker C: You can definitely get Garden and Gun, but it's not on the checkout rack.

Speaker A: You're saying you have to subscribe, basically. There's nowhere to like— Speaker C: You have to subscribe or go to the magazine section of the Publix rather than it being right there next to the candies. Speaker A: I got to say, there's nothing more depressing than a magazine section at Publix. It's a sad— Nothing more depressing. I mean, it's like shit. It's shit you cannot believe exists next to stuff that you can't believe still exists. Kind of is the combination. Speaker C: Shocking number of gun magazines at the Publix.

Speaker A: Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I guess that's the same thing as buying a car magazine if you're into cars. I find it all a little strange, but people have hobbies and I don't want to shame them for that. Speaker C: I don't want to shame them for it. I'm just saying that you go to Publix and you think that you're going to see Har— you think you're gonna go to see Harper's or The Atlantic or whatever, and it's like Guns and Ammo Annual. Speaker A: Yeah, no, Guns and Ammo Annual is definitely selling more in a Publix in Marietta than a fucking— than a— than an issue of The New Yorker, that's for sure.

Speaker C: It's the truth. Speaker B: They got Men's Fitness up there, just not the Kumail issue, you know what I mean? We don't— we don't play that down here in Georgia. Speaker A: We don't play that. We don't play that down here. Uh, so are you excited to be sort of promoting this memoir? Like, is it— are you finding it fun to do this side of things? Speaker C: Yeah, I am, I am. And it definitely brings out the old, you know, business salesman in me. Speaker A: You're saying you can slip back into that mind frame when it's time?

Speaker C: Yeah, I am, I am. And it definitely brings out the old, you know, business salesman in me. Speaker A: You're saying you can slip back into that mind frame when it's time? Speaker C: I thought, you know, every time I think I'm out, they get me back in. It basically— it's the Godfather III speech. I'm back to selling. And, you know, the cool, the cool thing about it is I think that the book is good. I think that the memoir is good. And I'm, you know, I mean, the thing that I dreamed of when I was a handbag salesman was like one day writing a book.

I mean, I was literally writing on the backs of, of, of business cards just to keep, you know, sharp or to prove that I could do it or whatever. And if somebody told me back then, you know, when I was driving on on Highway 20 from Dallas to Shreveport to sell bags that I was going to have, you know, a book out 40-plus years from then. I just got to say, you got to be, you got to be kidding me. But, but here it is. So I feel, I feel pretty good.

I feel pretty vindicated, to tell you the truth. Speaker B: Do you feel glad that you don't have to write a book again, or now do you have the bug? Speaker C: And all I want to do is, is write another book. The last, uh, you know, took me— so this, this thing was hard, you know. It took me, it took me 9 years because number one, I didn't know how to do it. Number two, there was something I was out to find, you know, that I had to find before I finished it.

But like the last like 6 months of that thing, I was just, just racing. It was just the coolest thing. So I want, I want that again. I don't want like the not knowing how part, but the like I got this part. Speaker B: Sure, sure. You want— you don't you want to skip the learning how to surf part and go straight to the bending over in the curl, cruising the fucking waves. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: Well, I mean, it seems like you do have the gift of gab and you can just go.

Have you thought about pivoting to the world of podcasting a little bit? I noticed that your voice and the way you talk kind of reminds me of Michael Lewis. Speaker C: Really? Speaker B: Have you ever told you that before? Speaker C: No, nobody. Tell me more. Michael's done well. Speaker B: He has done well. He, he'll do like kind of companion podcasts to like stuff that he's done. So there's like a Big Short podcast, have other sort of like investigative interesting little— yeah, yeah, kind of pod things. But I don't know, your, your voice just really reminds me of him.

And I guess you guys are a couple of peas in the pod. Speaker C: But we're definitely some peas in a pod. I've, I've only met— I've only met Michael once, but you know, I mean, he's you know, he's obviously great and has really, you know, he's figured out the whole narrative thing like extraordinarily well, and I admire him. So, but listen, but I have a, I have a question to ask you guys. Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker C: About the pod. Speaker A: Please. Speaker B: Sure. Speaker C: I hope you don't take it, I hope you don't take it wrong.

Speaker A: Oh, here we go. Speaker C: Is it easy? Speaker A: Uh, no, that is a good question. Um, I mean, easy is maybe the wrong word. Uh, but I think it— Speaker B: don't dodge the question, Chris. Don't dodge the question. Come on. Speaker A: But I just think it's not, I don't think it's easy because of— I think that the problem with podcasting in general is that that's how people look at it, and that's why so many celebrities— that's why so many people stop and start podcasts, because they think it's easy.

I would say that my job as like doing all the booking is easier than Jason's job, which is doing all the editing, but that's just us sort of leaning into our skill sets as well. I mean, Jason, would you say it's easy, or do you just like it so it feels easy most of the time. Speaker B: don't dodge the question, Chris. Don't dodge the question. Come on. Speaker A: But I just think it's not, I don't think it's easy because of— I think that the problem with podcasting in general is that that's how people look at it, and that's why so many celebrities— that's why so many people stop and start podcasts, because they think it's easy.

I would say that my job as like doing all the booking is easier than Jason's job, which is doing all the editing, but that's just us sort of leaning into our skill sets as well. I mean, Jason, would you say it's easy, or do you just like it so it feels easy most of the time. Speaker B: It really is a 10,000 hours kind of thing. Speaker C: Right. Speaker B: It's easy for us to do it because we talk a lot to each other and we're able to, you know, if it's easy for anyone whose podcast sounds exactly how they sound when they're talking to their friends off mic, off record, it's the people.

I think it's very difficult for people who are, you know, they speak openly one way off record. And then when the podcast mic gets turned on, on, then you have to sort of transform and metamorphosize into whatever you think a host of a podcast is. And that can be draining and it can be difficult. And, you know, if you really are trying hard to do a good job and not mess up, you know, it's only a matter of time until you're fucked. So you really need to be okay with like sounding like an idiot a lot and making mistakes and not caring.

Speaker C: You guys have done something, you know, and I'm not just kissing your ass, you guys have done something really interesting in that you make conversation, um, sort of see average-seeming conversation, you know, attractive and, and, um, something that people are want to check out, check into. Yeah, all that, all that stuff. Speaker C: You guys have done something, you know, and I'm not just kissing your ass, you guys have done something really interesting in that you make conversation, um, sort of see average-seeming conversation, you know, attractive and, and, um, something that people are want to check out, check into.

Yeah, all that, all that stuff. Speaker B: I think that we, we're living in a time where we have podcasts, we have music, we have information and news and all different types of media to consume, and there's a lot— it's, it's, it's an anxiety overload. And I think nothing is more calming and relaxing while you're walking the dog or riding the subway or driving to work on— in Atlanta traffic than just two people who seem to legitimately be friends having an enjoyable conversation. What it's about, it doesn't necessarily matter. It your brain truly does turn off and you hit like a meditative state, I believe.

Speaker C: Yeah. But when I meant easy, I meant not like easy to succeed in because I don't think it's easy to succeed in. But I mean, just sort of— I mean, writing is hard, like the psychological wear and tear for some people. Speaker B: But I'm just kidding. Speaker C: Sorry to hear Sorry to hear that. Speaker A: Sorry to hear that. Speaker C: The shit that you put yourself through as a writer is— every writer that I meet, that I know, it's just sort of crazy. I'm good friends with Seth Wickersham, my ESPN colleague, and he's always like, no way to make a living, man.

That's Seth's motto. Speaker C: Sorry to hear Sorry to hear that. Speaker A: Sorry to hear that. Speaker C: The shit that you put yourself through as a writer is— every writer that I meet, that I know, it's just sort of crazy. I'm good friends with Seth Wickersham, my ESPN colleague, and he's always like, no way to make a living, man. That's Seth's motto. Speaker A: I would say it's much easier than that. I will say that. Speaker B: Yeah, I think that being a good podcaster, and it is a lot of work and it can be hard, but I've never heard the word excruciating be used when describing the labor of creating a podcast, right?

And I hear it, you know, every writer has almost exclusively about— Speaker C: that's a good— that's a good day. Excruciating is a good day. Speaker A: No writer— nobody's like that. I mean, even when you said the last 6 months I, I had fun because I was like in the zone, I was locked in, it was working, it's like I, I barely even hear shit like that, you know what I mean? Like, that's like the most positive version of it. Speaker B: More like 6 hours. Speaker C: That was pretty cool.

That was pretty cool. Yeah, 6 hours. But 6 months. Speaker B: What were you— Speaker A: were you waking up and just going at it, or did you have a different kind of schedule? Speaker C: I was— I would, I would just— I would wake up because I spent some time, you know, we have a house up in Shelter Island on Long Island, and I went there by myself for a while. And I would just, you know, every day I would wake up around 7, go out to the shed, and just, you know, I would write 2,000 words, you know, over the course of the day.

Day. And then at night I would come in and like watch a TV show or series, go to bed 12:30, and then just do it every single day like that. It was pretty great. Speaker A: That— yeah, that sounds pretty good and reasonable. Speaker C: It was, you know, it was definitely reasonable. But of course I was living in complete seclusion and it didn't have to— you know, didn't even have a dog at the time. Dexter had died. It was before we got Jock. Speaker A: So hell no. So you were really— Speaker B: no time for a dog.

Well, it was— who was the person that you who would call to sort of help unearth some of this info that you sort of remember, but the really good stuff you had to call a friend or a sibling or something? Speaker C: I mean, there was definitely some people who helped me through this crazy stuff. But my wife Janet being, I would say, central there. Speaker B: Shout out to Janet. Speaker C: She knew the story. We've been together since we were kids. And so she knew a lot of the story.

And— Speaker B: Okay. Speaker C: But I think that, you know, the way it's presented in the book was also new to her because there's like, you know, there's a lot of details and it's told as one continuous story rather than as just as a series of semi-randomized discoveries. Speaker B: Yeah, you don't have chunks and chapters. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That sounds like a— Yeah, I mean, that sounds like an idyllic way to do it. Obviously, after 9 years, you deserve that 6 months. You earned it. Speaker C: Totally well earned, no doubt.

Speaker A: What's up with your shed, though? What's the vibe? Because I feel like you're underselling it when you call it a shed. Speaker C: No. So it was a shed. The guy, when we bought the house, the shed was definitely one of the selling points. But for years, and I'm talking about a long time, it was the kind of thing where it was so dusty. That was the kind of thing where, like, people would go, "Oh, Tom, I can't wait to see your writing." Shit. And then people, like, they'd see it and perhaps smell it, Chris.

Speaker C: Totally well earned, no doubt. Speaker A: What's up with your shed, though? What's the vibe? Because I feel like you're underselling it when you call it a shed. Speaker C: No. So it was a shed. The guy, when we bought the house, the shed was definitely one of the selling points. But for years, and I'm talking about a long time, it was the kind of thing where it was so dusty. That was the kind of thing where, like, people would go, "Oh, Tom, I can't wait to see your writing."

Shit. And then people, like, they'd see it and perhaps smell it, Chris. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker C: And turn around, you know, and flee. Because it was just such— it spoke of such desperation. And so a few— but a few years ago, I did fix it up a little it. Speaker A: We did a small renovation ourselves, or we brought in some help? Speaker C: No, I brought in a guy. I can't renovate. I have no skills in that way. Speaker A: I didn't think you did. Speaker B: So it's not a man cave, but there's no more— Speaker C: it's not a man cave.

Speaker B: No more leaks and things like that. Speaker C: It's just not as creepy as it was. It was creepy for a while. Speaker A: My question, is there a bathroom? No. Okay, this is a shed then. For some reason, bathroom would elevate it above shed level. Speaker C: Yeah. There's not even something to heat up the hot water. There's not even like one of those little machines. It's— there's not that. Speaker B: Nothing but a typewriter and a roach clip out there, huh, buddy? Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And a lot of— and a lot of— exactly, exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah. There's not even something to heat up the hot water. There's not even like one of those little machines. It's— there's not that. Speaker B: Nothing but a typewriter and a roach clip out there, huh, buddy? Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And a lot of— and a lot of— exactly, exactly. Speaker B: Uh, exactly. Speaker A: Typewriter and a roach clip. Speaker B: I could see that. Speaker A: But, but is there at least a great view? Speaker C: Uh, no, no. Okay. Speaker A: All right, all right. Speaker C: It's like, it's not— it's not nearly as picturesque as you're— as you're imagining.

Speaker B: The view that he's looking software is, is called Google Docs, correct? Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker A: The only— yeah, the only doc. Speaker B: Yeah, actually, what software do you use to write, if I may ask? Speaker C: Uh, so I use the worst. I use the worst software. Speaker A: Microsoft Word? Speaker C: I use Pages. Speaker A: What? Speaker B: Apple Pages? Speaker C: Who the fuck uses that? I'm the only Apple Pages. Speaker B: Interesting. Speaker C: Okay, so, so here's the other thing that I'm the only— I'm the only guy who still still buys music on iTunes.

I don't stream because you want to— you want to own it. I buy the song for $1.29. Speaker A: My boomer king. All right, so do you keep them all on a hard drive? Like, what the fuck you doing with it? Speaker C: Well, they're, you know, they're on my computer, and I keep on buying more space on my computer. And plus, I use something called iTunes Match, which I— you know, which allows you to, to use this, the stuff that you buy and that's on your hard drive Live goes out into, into the streaming space, into the digital space, by via iTunes Match.

And I'll bet you there are like 10 people still using this, and I'm one of them. Speaker A: Interesting. Okay, so you're saying iTunes Match is a service that basically mirrors the music you own into streaming versions so you can have it with you in the car and shit? Speaker C: Yes. Speaker B: So you could— all, all of your old CDs that you've ripped into MP3s, put on your computer, and then I didn't even know that. I, I've I've never even heard of iTunes Match, and I have a lot of MP3s.

Speaker A: Not to stunt. Speaker B: Yeah, so there really are 10 of you. It's only days until this service gets discontinued, I assume, right? Speaker C: Or they should give me some kind of award. Speaker A: Yeah, you guys either shut this whole thing down or give me a metal trophy that says— Speaker B: But also, yeah, the Lifetime Achievement Award of iTunes. Speaker C: Of iTunes. Speaker B: Some of the good, the pro AI, my, you know, vibe coding situations is as soon as that program is sunsetted, as they say, yeah, you can just, you know, type it into Claude and it'll just make that app for you again in whatever color you want and whatever, you know, for your phone or your laptop or whatever.

Speaker C: And, and just to fuck with me, they'll subtly change the music. Speaker A: Yeah, it's got to be just a little different. Speaker B: Same artist, different song, you know, just a little different, a little version, a little, you know, it's all the remastered versions but they sound worse. Speaker A: Yeah, I've You've never heard of this either? And this is a monthly fee? Speaker C: No, it's a yearly fee, I think. Speaker A: All right. We're going to check. We're going to look into this because this does feel like— so I know, I guess we, Jason and I probably know, I think because of our interest areas, we probably know a lot of people that buy music still, I would say maybe not on iTunes.

Speaker C: No, it's a yearly fee, I think. Speaker A: All right. We're going to check. We're going to look into this because this does feel like— so I know, I guess we, Jason and I probably know, I think because of our interest areas, we probably know a lot of people that buy music still, I would say maybe not on iTunes. Speaker C: Okay. Okay. But, but you don't know anybody that uses iTunes Match? Speaker A: No, I do not. Speaker B: Never heard of it. That's good. Speaker C: And that is, I feel very special.

Speaker B: No, you are the few, the proud. Have you considered downloading music illegally? Illegally from these cool websites? Speaker C: Um, I used to go on these, you know, like the music blogs back in the day when the music blogs posted MP3s. That was great. Speaker B: Tell me about— tell me more about it, Grandpa. Speaker C: That was great. Speaker A: You guys remember 2009? It was great. It was so cool. Speaker B: Do you remember what music blogs you were on? Speaker A: Oh, I do. God, I know what he was going to— Gorilla vs.

Bear? Speaker C: No, no, no. There were like all these cover sites that I used to go on. Speaker B: Like cover songs? Speaker C: Yeah, cover songs. That was one of them. Speaker B: Cover, cover songs. Go pull up some String Cheese Incident MP3s on cover songs, whatever it might be. Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Like this, like String Cheese Incident version of like the Dead's Playing in the Band, or— and then, and then it would have, you know, all of like— there was one site, God, I forget the name, it's a long time, um, but that would— they'd have like one song covered by 10 artists and I'd be the guy that downloaded all of them.

Speaker A: Are you a jam band guy at heart? Speaker C: No, no, no, definitely not. I'm definitely Geese over Goose. Speaker A: Are you a jam band guy at heart? Speaker C: No, no, no, definitely not. I'm definitely Geese over Goose. Speaker A: Wow. Okay. Damn. Speaker B: Yeah, we might see Goose. Speaker A: We might see Geese tomorrow in Paris. I can't decide where. I don't know what our time is going to be, Jason, but there is— there's an offer. They're on at 9. Speaker C: So Geese is really— it's, you know, they have a thing, right?

Which is super great. And very few bands can get away way with it, which is that you don't know if it's good or bad. I love that. Speaker A: It's one of the most powerful things you can be. Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. Pull that off. Speaker A: I mean, I think that being polarizing is a real currency in our attention economy. Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely. Speaker B: What's— what are some other musical artists or bands that fit that category as well? Well, so tell if they're good or bad. Speaker C: I am wearing— I like— since— because I, like, I thought that there's a sense that this might actually be a video thing.

So I'm wearing my Nick Cave Idiot Prayer t-shirt right now. Now, I don't think that you can think that anybody can think that like Nick Cave is bad because he's the man. Um, but I think that it's— I can definitely see it's polarizing. It's definitely polarizing musically. I can see plenty of people not liking Nick very much, you know, including, including my wife Janet, who, um, sure, sure, she, she's, she's away. She just left right before you guys checked in. She just went away for a girls weekend. And so, you know, so I'm gonna put— I'm gonna, um, right after we get off, I'm letting him hang this weekend.

Steely Dan and Steely Dan and Nick Cave are gonna go on that turntable. Speaker A: All right, so what, all right, what do we do? Yeah, what do— all right, wife's out of town, we're in Marietta. What are we— we going into the cellar for something nice and cranking up and cranking up Geese? What, what's the plan? Speaker C: I live in Marietta, so there is no cellar, man. There's a crawl space. Okay. Speaker A: Okay. Okay. I was— Speaker B: got a couple steaks marinating in the fridge. Speaker C: I wish I went, but I went to— no, I don't.

I don't. But I did go to Jian Famous, and I got some— I got an extra takeout of noodles. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker A: Okay. Oh, wow. Speaker C: Okay. I'm going to hit the Jian again tonight. Speaker A: So your wife's going out of town, and you have some noodles in the fridge. Speaker C: French plan. Yeah. Speaker A: Man, turn up, bro. Okay. Well, really celebrating. Speaker B: Speaking of food, you are a James Beard Award-winning writer. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: But you wrote an essay called My Mom Couldn't Cook.

So it wasn't necessarily. Speaker C: That's right. Speaker B: It seems like it wasn't an instructional recipe. Speaker C: No, it wasn't. Speaker B: Essay you were writing. It was something a little more emotional and deeper. Speaker C: But I did the, I was the, I was on the board of the James Beard journalism committee for 5 years. Speaker A: I'm sure that's an unpaid opportunity. Speaker C: It was definitely unpaid. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's— Speaker B: it's— what are your culinary bona fides, my friend? Speaker C: I'm a wicked cook.

Oh, really good cook. I've been cooking ever since I was, you know, I was a kid and my parents went out to the track and left me with the steaks. So I, I got good. Speaker B: Okay, um, went out to the— Speaker A: went out to the track, your parents were gambling on the ponies? Speaker C: I'm a wicked cook. Oh, really good cook. I've been cooking ever since I was, you know, I was a kid and my parents went out to the track and left me with the steaks.

So I, I got good. Speaker B: Okay, um, went out to the— Speaker A: went out to the track, your parents were gambling on the ponies? Speaker C: Oh my God, did I love it. Speaker A: That's a cool thing for a couple to do though. You know what I mean? I feel like that's usually one or the other and usually the fella-ish. Cool-ish. Well, I'm saying not given how much money was lost, I wouldn't say that. Speaker B: Chris likes that the family's doing it together versus, yeah, I gotta, you know, I gotta get away from my bitch wife or whatever.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I usually think of it as I gotta get away from my bitch wife behavior. No, my mom, let's go down. Speaker C: So my, you know, my dad did, did many things to estrange himself from— yes, my mom, a whole book's worth. But the track, man, she loved it. She was helpless. She loved the— she loved the ponies, man. She just did. Speaker A: That's okay. So she was the driving force behind the ponies? Speaker C: Oh, I wouldn't go that far, um, you know, but she just— she just liked it too, you know.

And a lot of the stuff that my dad did, um, she did not like, of course, or not even— was, was not even privy to. But she definitely liked the 20s. And, and it was great 'cause they used to argue about how to bet. And, you know, my mom would go in, bet favorites, come home with $20. Dad would go bet long shots and lose $1,000. It was, it was just like two different approaches to the same— two different approaches. And yet, you know, even though, even though my dad would lose $1,000, my mom would win $20, he had nothing but scorn for her, you know, style of betting.

Yeah. Speaker B: You have to— yeah. Speaker A: It doesn't matter who's right. Speaker C: It's not betting. Speaker A: It's— Speaker B: yeah. Speaker A: It's, you know, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong. Speaker B: What were their drinks? What were their horse track drinks? Speaker C: My mom didn't drink except maybe occasionally, like a Dubonnet, like a dry sherry kind of thing. And Dad was a Rob Roy straight scotch martini rum and Coke guy. That was Dad's— Speaker A: That's a pretty good lineup. Speaker B: Diverse. Speaker C: That was Dad's big four.

It was diverse, but it was seasonal. It was seasonal. Sure. Yeah. There was your winter drinks. Yeah, the rum and Coke was summer and Christmas, weirdly enough. Speaker A: I feel like Scotch on the Rocks feels like a drink that I have never seen anyone order in public. It's only on television. Speaker C: Dad was definitely a Scotch on the Rocks guy. Speaker A: I feel like it's a different time period. It was much more popular, but now I only see it on legal dramas after a long day. Speaker C: I can't drink Scotch.

Speaker A: I never drank Scotch. I don't. Speaker B: A little too peaty. A little too peaty. Speaker C: Yeah. As my parents would say, it repeats on me. Speaker B: It does. Speaker C: It does. Speaker B: My wife's dad drinks it a lot, and I got to force it down or else I look like a pussy in front of him. You know what I mean? Speaker C: Right. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker C: No, I've definitely— That's why you look like a pussy in front of him. I know exactly what you mean.

I've definitely forced down the scotch in my life, and then it repeats on me. So I just started recording. Speaker C: Right. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker C: No, I've definitely— That's why you look like a pussy in front of him. I know exactly what you mean. I've definitely forced down the scotch in my life, and then it repeats on me. So I just started recording. Speaker A: I'm not familiar with this phrase, repeats on me? Speaker C: It means that— okay, so we're going to go deep right now. It means that like when you belch, you can taste it.

Speaker A: Oh, okay. All right, that's, that's enough. That's quite enough. Speaker B: And it's a little, little play on the words with the word Pete and repeat in it, you know. Speaker A: Yeah, I got all that. Speaker B: It's a double word score. Speaker C: The next time I, I, I listen to How Long Gone, I want to hear you use repeats in a sentence. Speaker A: All right, Professor Tom, I'll, I'll do my best. Speaker B: Well, yeah, after we record this pod, we'll kind We're going to take a shower and go get some escargot and do a little repeating and we'll let you know how it goes.

Speaker C: That's right. You just flexed the France on me. Speaker A: It's not a flex, sir. It's not a flex. Part of me would love to be in my backyard in Marietta looking at a pond. If a few things went different ways, that could be me. Speaker B: We're here to look at a fashion show. We're not here to dig ditches. I think things are going to be just fine. Speaker C: How's fashion these days? Speaker A: This pretty good so far. I mean, we've all, you know, in general, um, you know, it's, I would say industry-wise, maybe there's some shrinkage happening.

Um, but that's the nature of the, of any— Speaker B: there's the destruction of the middle class of fashion. It's only unattainable luxury items or hyper affordable cheap stuff. Speaker C: Right, right. Speaker A: That's, that's the— Speaker C: so what was, and then what was, what was the, what was the middle class? Um, like in, in, like in men's clothing, what, what, what would have been the middle class? Like, was was, was, was, was— I guess Zenya would be middle class, right? Speaker B: there's the destruction of the middle class of fashion.

It's only unattainable luxury items or hyper affordable cheap stuff. Speaker C: Right, right. Speaker A: That's, that's the— Speaker C: so what was, and then what was, what was the, what was the middle class? Um, like in, in, like in men's clothing, what, what, what would have been the middle class? Like, was was, was, was, was— I guess Zenya would be middle class, right? Speaker A: Zenya is very— no, Zenya is very high-end, actually. I, I, I mean, obviously they make different— they have stuff at different price points, but I think that nowadays Zenya is considered luxury price point-wise, right?

Speaker B: Right. Speaker C: Um, I remember, I remember when Zenya started moving up and started getting really expensive, and for a while, for a while, it was pretty— it was pretty affordable. Speaker A: Well, everything is now very expensive, is the reality. Um, and that's sort of— I mean, sometimes I forget that I'm in the vortex where this is like normal. You know, a button-up shirt costs $1,200, and I don't think that's— Speaker C: wow. Speaker A: Like, I have to remind myself that's crazy. Speaker B: Our, uh, our friend, uh, Rachel Tashian wrote a story recently, like, who— like, if, if the only people who go to fashion shows are like Mark Zuckerberg and stuff, like, who, who are these clothes for at the end of the day?

Speaker C: You know, especially when those guys have no sense of fashion whatsoever. Speaker A: Hey, Look, when you make enough money, you get hobbies. I'd rather him be wearing Prada than buying another, you know, island in Hawaii. Speaker C: Sure. Speaker A: Or, you know, doing some sort of damage to our culture at large. I think it's a pretty victimless crime, really. Speaker B: Look, keep him front row in Prada so he doesn't have enough time to do ethnic cleansing. Speaker C: Sure. Speaker A: Or, you know, doing some sort of damage to our culture at large.

I think it's a pretty victimless crime, really. Speaker B: Look, keep him front row in Prada so he doesn't have enough time to do ethnic cleansing. Speaker C: That's a good idea. Speaker A: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, Jason. Thank you. Speaker C: Right. Speaker A: Keep him busy. Speaker C: Okay. You have made me see something. Speaker A: We turned you around. Speaker C: You've turned me around. Speaker A: All right, Tom, thank you for joining us today on How Long on. Uh, your new memoir is in stores everywhere.

And Jason pointed out the title. Speaker C: And what's the— what's the name of that memoir? We got to do a little promotion here. Speaker B: In the Days of— we actually said it before in the intro, but I mentioned that the, the artwork on the COVID as well as the title of the book is reminiscent of the Smiths for me. Speaker A: Yeah, it's giving Smith song. Speaker C: That is so— that is so cool. Speaker A: It's a great title. Speaker C: Of course, of course it's a Led Zeppelin song.

But now you guys know this, right? You guys know that it's— Speaker A: I didn't know that. I don't like Led Zeppelin. Speaker C: I've In the days of my youth, I was told what it means to be a man. Yeah, it's that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. Speaker A: Okay, it does sound more like a Smiths song when it's— but maybe that's because it's a book title. Speaker C: Yeah, I love the fact that it's a Smiths song. Speaker A: I want to hear it. Speaker C: I want to go to one of those old closed-down MP3 cover websites that I used to frequent and hear a Smiths version of of Led Zeppelin's Good Times, Bad Times.

Speaker A: I wonder if that exists. Speaker B: Well, I will fire up the AI machine and get that on your desk by Monday, sir. Speaker C: When you have Morrissey on, talk to him. Speaker A: I wonder if that exists. Speaker B: Well, I will fire up the AI machine and get that on your desk by Monday, sir. Speaker C: When you have Morrissey on, talk to him. Speaker A: I'll talk to Morrissey. I'll text Morrissey and see what he's doing. He's in the hospital again. All right, thanks, Tom.

Speaker C: Okay, guys, thanks a lot. Speaker A: It was a lot of fun. Of course, man. We'll see you soon. Speaker B: My pleasure. Speaker A: Later. Speaker B: See you. Speaker C: Bye. To be a man.